and that's when bill clinton and like you said the dlc brought them together. here's the really disturbing thing. i remember, mike, back in 1995, a lot of people were talking about colin powell running for president. and i didn't want colin powell to run for president. he was a moderate. i was a conservative. but it wasn't the entire party and me against colin powell. like there were moderates in the center of the party. and we had this very positive give and take. >> what's happened? >> this tug. >> what's happened? >> the moderates in the party have collapsed. >> where are those voices coming from? >> i am now considered by a lot of the right-wing looneys to be a moderate, to be a, quote, rino. anybody that's listened to anything i've said on taxes, on the budget, on the fiscal cliff, i mean, i think my party made a horrible mistake on the fiscal cliff, and yes, i would stare at the president on a government shutdown and say, yeah, maybe shutting down the government's reckless, but you know what's even more reckless? continuing to spend the way you and harry